Magnidotter (?), Louise born ca 1844. Emigr from ? to Denmark

[Kristján Unnar Ellertsson]

Hello.  
I am new to this forum, and I regret to say that I do not speak any Swedish, I hope it is no inconvenience.
I need help with genealogy tracing in Sweden, I have no idea how to do it here (I have learned how to do it for Denmark's side.. vaguely) and I was really hoping if you would be willing to help me here. I also hope I am posting this in the correct category.
 
I have been tracing my genealogy for a long time, and I came across Swedish ancestry, my great great great grandmother;
 Louise Magnidotter (Said to be her original name) / Lovise Mogensen / Lovise Marie Mogensen
These are three different spellings she gave of her name in Danish census records. In those records, she is said to be born in Sverrig (Svergie), but it does not say where in Sweden she is born, which sadly leaves me with no other information to give you.
She moved to Denmark, and married there a Søren Christensen and established family there with him.
She is born between 1844 - 1848.
 
I really hope you guys can help me here. Is it possible to access church records online? I know I gave you big time frame to look through, and I imagine its hard to find her. Hope to hear from you guys.
 
Best wishes,
Kristján.

[Moderator English]

Sub-topic transfered from Discussions in English/Swedish names by moderator.
(Original poster informed by e-mail).

[Arne Granquist]

Hej
The CD EMIBAS shows these possible persons:
 
Magnidotter, Johanna Lovisa b. 11/9 1847 i Ramkvilla, Jönköpings län (Småland)   Emigrated 9/11 1876
Magnidotter, Lovisa b. 1/18/1844 Hinneryd  Kronobergs län (Småland)  Emigrated 3/19/1862
Magnidotter, Lovisa  b. 4/19/1845 in Östra Torsås, Kronobergs län (Småland) Emigrated 8/8/1873Post 248914
Magnusdotter Skön, Lovisa Mathilda b. 12/20/1849 in Furuby, Kronobergs län (Småland) Emigrated 10/28/1868
Magnusdotter, Lovisa b. 6/10/1847 in Sjösås, Kronobergs län (Småland) Emigrated 6/14/1869
 
Could be or could not be one iof them.
Any idea on when she left Sweden, parents name .....
 
Arne

[Lisbeth Zachs]

Arne,
Fråga av kunskapsbehov från min sida. Tar Emibas upp även om man _bara_ emigrerar till Danmark?
 
Just an interesting question about Emibas. Does it cover emigrants to Denmark also. And does you or somebody know if there is an Embas even for Denmark emigrants as an alternative?

[Kristján Unnar Ellertsson]

Hi
 
Sorry, I don't have any other information.  
What I have though is this: Søren and Louise were married before the birth of Magnus Christensen Beck (their first child) 5 Aug. 1875 (Krønge, Fuglse, Maribo 1870-1891, opslag 10, No . (From Danish forum)
I suppose she is more likely born around 1846-1848, as the census in Denmark 1880/90 say she is 33 and 43 years old at the time.
 
My only guess is that her father's name is Magnus or Magni, Mogens was more likely her Danish version of her father's name and decided to use that in Denmark.
One might just think that the last name you gave, Arne, Magnusdotter, Lovisa b. 6/10/1847 in Sjösås, Kronobergs län (Småland) Emigrated 6/14/1869  could maybe be the one I am looking for.  
 
Best,
Kristján.

[Lisbeth Zachs]

Kristjan,
That new information is very good. Just that Lovise had a child in Denmark means that we can search in Danish records of emigrants. The son was very likely with them when they left.  
 
So please let us know if there is anything else you found out from her stay in Denmark. Did they have more children in Denmark or do you have any surname of children even in US? It is likely that such surname is from relatives of Louise and therefore a possible thread to search from. That the first child was named Magnus increases the likelihood that Louises father had just that name. So any surnames in your family at that time is possibly names of Louises siblings.
 
Do you have any idea if any more of Louise or Sören Christiansens family came over to the states? Any little bits increases the chances to find the link you looking for.
Have you heard anybody in the family talking about names of places i Sweden? Eg if Louise came from the south or the north?  
 
Your own middle name Unnar, makes me think there may have been a Gunnar earlier among your ancestral namnes. Any knowledge of there your name came from?
 
(Meddelandet ändrat av Lzachs 2014-03-29 15:08)

[Kristján Unnar Ellertsson]

Yes, I thought about posting all of the children's names, so we could maybe find the mother.  
 
Cencus 1890 (Magnus is missing)
Katrine Christensen           12   Ugift    Barn       Ryde
Thyra Christensen             11   Ugift    Barn       Nysted
Marie Nikoline Christensen    8    Ugift    Barn       Krønge
Martine Dagmar Christensen    8    Ugift    Barn       Krønge
Edvard Christensen            5    Ugift    Barn       Krønge
Thorvald Christensen          3    Ugift    Barn       Fuglse  
 
Katrine is my great great grandmother.
 
I'm sorry, but it was not my intention to let you think they moved to the United States. They never did. I live in Iceland. Lovise moved to Denmark, and must have met Søren there, unless he was Swedish as well. Then my family was in Denmark until my grandmother moved to Iceland in 1953. My other grandmother's name was Unnur, Unnar is the masculine name of Unnur. Kirsten is my other grandmother, she is Danish, and her paternal grandmother was Katrine Christensen Bech. Grandmother never mentioned Sweden, she knew nothing about her family, and only discovered she was tinsy bit Swedish when I showed her.
As far as I know nobody is living in the States, sorry.
I often wonder where this Bech name comes from, because neither Lovise nor Søren claimed to have that name in the Census records, but all the children did.
 
Magnus Bech had atleas one child, called Harry Bech, dead in 1991, but I doupt he moved to the US. I really don't know.

[Lisbeth Zachs]

I'm not certain of how to make references to the Danish records but
Maribo, Fuglse, Krønge, Krønge Sogn, Hus, 6, FT-1880, C0599 seem to be covering the family of Sören Christiansen och Lovirse Christen and the three children
 
Søren Christensen    32    Gift   Indsider, Dagleier i Agerbruget      ?? Sogn, Randers Amt
Lovirse Christen    33    Gift   Hans Hustru      Oster?? Sogn, Sverrig
Magnus Christensen Bech    4    Ugift   Deres Barn      Krønge Sogn
Katrine Christensen Bech    2    Ugift   Deres Barn      Ryde Sogn
Thyra Christensen Bech    1    Ugift   Deres Barn      Nysted Kjøbstad
 
Assuming that I found the correct son Magnus Christensen Bech born 1875 we now have two more surnames of possible siblings to Louise.
 
Kristjan has also found that Louise appeared in the census of 1890 as well so the family ought to have left Denmark after 1890.
 
If Emibas includes emigration to Denmark, leaving Sweden sometime before 1873/74 seem likely.

[Lisbeth Zachs]

Kristjan,
My misstake assuming an American emigration. We also posted across with each other.  
 
I by the way found that Magnus Christian Beck served as farmhand 14 years old 1890
Maribo, Fuglse, Fuglse, Krønge Sogn, Hillestolpe, Gaard, 260, FT-1890, C7761
Magnus Christensen Beck    14    Ugift   Tyende    Tjenestedreng   Krønge Sogn og By
 
Let see what we can find out more about Louise Magnusdotter.

[Carl Wolf]

Hi Kristjan, you can find an image of the 1880 Danish census here, the family is found on opslag 9.
http://www.sa.dk/content/dk/ao-forside/find_folketallinger#
 
Lovisa's birth place looks to me like Osterlovs, possibly Österslöv, Kristianstads Län.

[Lisbeth Zachs]

Carl,
Could you please give us a more detaljed description on how to find the image of Danish sensus for 1880. The link only gives the start page for all census.
 
I had a look att Östra Torsåker since I found Ostra song in the digital archive for 1880 and Östra Torsåker was what Arne had found an Emibas record for. But no luck founding Louise Magnusdotter in the books over people that had left the parish 1872/1873. But the priest had made a note that he had a special notification for 5-7 people without informing where he had recorded this special people. :-/

[Kristján Unnar Ellertsson]

I see, thank you Lisbeth. Katrine was also a Tjenestepige in 1901.
I hope more can be learned about Lovise, I'd love to know more of her ancestry.
 
It's been a long time since I looked at this census. It's always a trouble for me to understand the writing. He did an especially good job of bad writing for Søren/Lovise, but I guess you are right, it does look like Osterlovs. Is there a list of all Søgn in Sweden that one could look at to perhaps compare the writing to?

[Carl Wolf]

Hi Lisbeth, at the census start page, select 1880 from the year (Årgang) drop-down menu, select Landsogn from the Stedbetegnelse drop-down menu, and select Krønge from the Sogn drop-down menu.  Click on Krønge at the bottom right-hand side of the screen and you may then be asked to save a file called ViewImage.jnlp.  When you open that file in your browser, Java should load and a display window will open for the census images.

[Lisbeth Zachs]

Thanks Carl.
That explanation worked fine. Now I'm trying to work out how to find the next census. There might be a chance to better read Louises homestead in Sweden in that census than in the 1880 one.
 
Kristjan,
There is no handwritten list of all parish in Sweden. You can find lists of places, but it will be typed.  
http://www2.sofi.se/SOFIU/topo1951/_cdweb/phpform/_helareg1.php

[Kristján Unnar Ellertsson]

Hi
 
I appreciate you guys are taking your time to help me. It is indeed hard to read the writing there, and since I do not know any parish name in Sweden, it's impossible for me to guess.  
It will be marvellous to finally learn about my tiny Swedish side.

[Lisbeth Zachs]

Kristjan,
I at least feel that we have to get a better handling on the Danish church records. They are entirely new to me and even if our languages are not so far apart the old technical vocabulary for church records takes some time to getting used to.  
 
What might help to locate Louise in Sweden is to find when she arrived in Denmark. When she married may also help depending on how the Danish church recorded family ties of the bride.  
 
In Sweden we often have records of people entering and leaving the parish. If Denmark have a similar system that may help both in when she arrived and perhaps more accurately where she came from. So we will have to work harder with the Danish information before we can search properly for Louise in Sweden.  
 
So what ever source you yourself have managed to locate in the Danish records is appreciated. Perhaps you could do a similar request at the search forum in Denmark and report back with their findings. They will of course be much better handling there records.  
 
I don't mind learning new stuff, so I will dig into their beginners information as well.

[Carl Wolf]

Hi Kristjan, you can find the Danish church records at the same site that has the census records, just change Folketællinger to  Kirkebøger.  They have moving in records for Krønge Parish, unfortunately the most recent are from 1868 so none are available for the time period immediately before the birth of their first child.  As Lisbeth suggested, it would be helpful to find out where and when they married, since the marriage records often include information such as birth dates, birth locations, and even sometimes the parents' names.  I checked the marriage records for Krønge Parish from 1867 through 1875 and they were not married there.
 
I found the family in the 1890 census for Krønge Parish and unfortunately Lovisa's birth location is listed only as Sverrig.  I also looked through the 1901 census and did not find them at all -- if you know to where Lovisa moved, we could also look there.

[Kristján Unnar Ellertsson]

Hi there, Magnidotter, Lovisa b. 4/19/1845 in Östra Torsås, Kronobergs län (Småland) Emigrated 8/8/1873Post 248914 might be a possible candidate.
Look at this: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FK83-J5T?cc=1520592
Same people: https://www.sa.dk/content/dk/ao-forside/find_kirkeboger (Kirkeboger -> Ålborg -> Hindsted -> Vive -> 1858 - 1874, opslag 139, no. 3)
Year dates don't match accordingly to the census in Denmark with Lovise's age, but they match quite well with Søren. It would be quite the coincidence that two Lovise/Søren born around same time as my people get married few years before their first child. But I am not making any statement yet. What do you guys think?
Bachelor and worker Sören Kristiansen at Rödehuse, born at April 12th 1848, thus 25 years old.
Maid Lovisa Magnidotter at Rödehuse, Permit of August 8th, 1873 from the priest in Växjö, Sweden. Born April 19th, 1845 in Östra Thorsås parish in Kronoberg’s province. Thus 28 years old,
 
Carl, I am unsure where they moved in 1901. The kind people in the danish forum also lost them in 1901. They could be anywhere. I could guess København, because that's where Katrine lived in 19...03 maybe, but I really don't know.  
 
If you guys look at the 1880 census with the family, do you guys read it as Östra Torsås ? I am unsure, but it reminds me of it. I read it as Oster To-os (I find it remarkable that I managed to encrypt few letters there, his writing is terrible)  
 
I have been busy all day, and I am afraid I will be busy this week. I will try to look at the forum as much as possible, I hope I can get my work done soon.

[Karen Van Etten]

Kristjan - sometimes it is difficult for one priest to read another's priest's handwriting.  A poorly
written 8 might look like a 5 or vice-versa. And depending upon the month, the age might be off a year
or so (might not yet have occurred), or the person forgets their age has changed by a year.  The Österlöv
parish does not seem likely - a review of 10 years' births did not show one Louise or Lovisa.
The Östra Torsås {also seen as 'Thorsås'} location has a lot going for it.  Lovisa's 1845 birth
shows her father is named Magnus and mother named Katrina - note that Lovisa has versions of those names
for her own children.  The 1845 Lovisa moved several times between 1861 and 1873 - Täfvelsås, Växjö, back
to Östra Torsås, off again to Växjö and Jät.  She will lead you on a merry chase.   If she is the one,
it appears the next thing is to find her trip to Denmark.
 
Karen V.

[Karen Van Etten]

As mentioned in previous post, this 1845 Lovisa moved quite a bit.  During April, 1867
she left one area in Växjö, moving to Blända No. 84 (N.83).  {see Vol. AI:29}
But, she then disappeared from the residence.  The parish record-keeper enters her
name in the 1869 Utflyttning, temporarily moving her to page 1376 -
Särskilda Forteckningar.  In other words, they didn't know where she was.
Her name was then placed in the Obefintlighetsbok.  Eventually the Växjö pastor
was consulted - probably by church officials in Denmark, to make sure there
were no impediments to her coming marriage.  Below is a snippet of the 1873 entry
made in the Obefintlighetsbok, to clear her name from Växjö records:
 

 
Good luck in your search.
Karen V.

[Carl Wolf]

Hi Kristján, I think you found the correct marriage record since it states that Søren was born in Udbyneder Parish, which is in Randers Amt.  That partially matches with the 1880 census record stating he was born in Randers Amt and while the parish name looks something like Orgrens, I cannot find any parish name remotely resembling that in Randers Amt (Agri is closest).  Also the August 1875 birth record for Magnus (Maribo Fuglse Krønge Krønge 1870-1891 opslag 10) states that Lovisa was 30 years old, which matches the birth date in April of 1845.

[Kristján Unnar Ellertsson]

I see. I wonder why she moved so much.  
That is good that everyone agree that this is the correct Lovise. Now there is a foundation for my Swedish part of family tree.