Äldre inlägg (arkiv) till 2006-07-08

[Karin Ekeroth]

Hi Charles,
 
I would suppose that schinerade is a home made spelling of generade which would mean bothered by or by.
 
kusties  is puzzling. There is an old word kustos which meant a sort of monitor, but I don?t know if that would suit the situation at hand.
 
Herr Peder is an old ballad, but I am not familiar enough with it to recognize the part you have written and I don?t know enough about Stjerneld or if he had anything to do with the ballad. It could also be something Stjerneld said at some time or another.
 
Mvh,
Karin

[Elisabeth Thorsell]

Hi Charles, for the poem/song by Stjerneld, I think you might send a question to the Svenskt Visarkiv, where they might be able to tell you more about the writer, who probably was Adolph Ludvig Stjerneld, b. 1750, died 1835.
 
The Svenskt Visarkiv is a state institution that cares for old music and songs and similar things.

[Solveig Qvarnström]

I guess SCHINERADE could be chikanerade which means dishonoured.

[Charles LaVine]

To All:
 
Thanks for your replies. .
 
Solveig, I took your suggestion as it fits the best.
 
Elisabeth, thanks for the lead to Svensk Visarkiv. They have replied that they do not think that Stjerneld was the author of the Herr Peder verse. He did compile an number of old Swedish folk songs and published the same, or they are in his papers at Uppsala biblioteket. THey have know knowledge of whom was the composer but they are old folksvisore.
 
Can you help me with another question? Here is what Roos writes:
 
Nota bena på den dag, då denna ZAROF tuttar eld på wåra lilla planet.
 
I have googled and tried the Nordisk Familjebok but have no idea of who ZAROF is.
 
Mvh,
 
Charles

[Elisabeth Thorsell]

Hi Charles, It sounds to me like Zarof would be a comet, perhaps one that has its steady orbit, like Halley's comet, as it threatens to put fire to our little planet.

[Ing-Marie Haglund]

Hi Charles
Which date did he wrote about Zarof in his diary? A comet called Zarof who was able to set our little planet on fire would be well-known.
 
For example in 1861 the earth past the tail of a naked-eye comet called The great One or Comet Tebutt:
 
July 1861 - Comet Tebbutt (1861 II). Comet seen in early morning sky at magnitude -2.0 and with a 90 degree long tail. Some believe comet was a potent for upcoming Battle of Bull Run (21 July 1861) and the Civil War.

[Charles LaVine]

Elisabeth and Ing-Marie,
 
Thanks for the suggestion. It was a good one, but I have googled comets and on a chronological listing of comet appearances going back to the 1500s, have found none with the name Zerof.
 
I might be mistaken about Roos' handwriting and his capital Z, but it definitely is not a capital L, which I had first surmised.
 
I have also tried various encylopedia to no avail.
 
It's a puzzle. Roos, when he makes allegorical references, seems to know of what he refers to.
 
Again, thanks.
 
MVH,
 
Charles

[Per Thorsell]

Charles.
 
Regarding Zarof. Since this creature is expected to set the earth on fire, I imagine, it is a misspelling (or misreading, or both) of Seraf. You can find them in the Bible: Jesaja 6: 1 - 6. They are the angels placed next to God. Each has six wings. On the day of the Apocalypse, they may well be active, setting the world on fire.
 
Per Thorsell.

[Ing-Marie Haglund]

Charles,
I couldn't find a comet named zarof either... more interesting what he is refering to? The civil war?
` Ing-Marie

[Charles LaVine]

To All,
 
Per, your suggestion that ZAROF was a misspelling of SERAF Is the correct one. Roos, in this diary entry, is relating a story of the unkindness of some of his comrades to a group of wounded Michigan soldiers from whom they steal the woundeds' rubber blankets when they are all on board a steamer during a rain storm. Yes, they should be judged on Armegedon.  
 
Thanks from a wayward Augustan Lutheran who is not very knowledgable about the Bible.
 
Some more needed definitions or explanations:
 
 
1. Intet annat än att det är allt för läckert för swenaka munnen - ja läckeer än PORTCHES, hvartill en del of detsamma kunde prepareras
 
What is/are PORTCHES, possbibly a regional food or dish? Roos is describing the so-called smoked pork they get through the Union Army's commissary service - not good
 
2. Men hvad som Ännu öfverträffas allt i det store hela är flaskets sköna smak, jad will likna den med den beskast EKLUT.
 
What is EKLUT? SAOB did not recognize the word. And I do not think Roos misspelled EKLÖF.
 
3. Dit wi ankommo uti nedmörkning och under ett starkt åsk regn, att wi FLETA tämligen ondt.
 
FLETA could be in the present spelling FLÄTA = to braid, but this does not really make sense.
 
I am also puzzling over the word SCHENI. I thought I had copied the sentence in which it was used, but I apparently did not. I have translated it as follows. Using the word “vision”:
 
“Likewise, got a plate of broken sweet crackers from the same person who is the cook for the officers so that I now, for the remainder of the week, avoid having to forage for food or depend upon our sutler who, in any case, does not have much to offer and has the brilliant vision  to keep his goods at exaggerated prices.”
 
MVH,  
Charles

[Bo Johansson]

PORTCHES = there is something called potkäs (grated cheese mixed with butter and spices), could that fit here?
 
EKLUT = extract from oak bark used in tanning, there is an expression gå genom ekluten that my dictionary translates as go through the mill.
 
FLETA = I would guess it is actually sleta or slita (slita ont = have a rough time).
 
SCHENI = probably a variant spelling of geni (genius).
 
// Bo Johansson

[Ing-Marie Haglund]

Hi, Charles
1) I don't know but, he is using irony and maybe swenglish  - (something is) more delicious then (PORTCHES)  
 
2)Irony. Eklut is lye (potassium hydroxide) made of oak ash - and would certainly taste very bitter.  
 
3) Check if the F could be an S instead because the word Sleta (värmländsk spelling för Slita) make more sense to me: SLITA ONT means work VERY hard.
 
4) Scheni would be a misspelling för geni i.e brilliant talent to...

[Charles LaVine]

Bo,  
 
Thanks for your input. I have taken your suggestion re PORTCHES.  
 
As to SCHENI or GENI, Roos several paragraphs later does use the actual word GENI. I think he meant SCHEMA which fits, namely in English scheme
 
Ing-Marie, Roos was from Värmland so I have used your translation.
 
As to EKLUT, dumb me. I should have caught the root noun LUT since lutefisk is so very popular in the US.
 
Again, thanks.
 
MVH,
 
Charles

[Ing-Marie Haglund]

Hi, Charles
I don't know if anyone has mentioned for you that Swedish rules of spellning was introduced as late (?) as in 1874 when the first edition of SAOL was published... So no wonder why Ross often spells phonetical.  
 
Its 13th edition was released in april this year:
 
Svenska Akademiens Ordlista, or SAOL for short, is a dictionary published every few years by the Swedish Academy. It is a single volume that is considered the final arbiter of Swedish spelling. Traditionally it carries the motto of the Swedish Academy, Snille och Smak (Talent and Taste), on its blue cloth cover. Whenever a new edition comes out lively discussions about new and changed entries erupt around the country. In some instances the Academy has been ahead of its times and has later had to change entries back to older spellings. Jos - juice is probably the most well-known instance.

[Charles LaVine]

To All:
 
Two questions. The first is a translation of the word in CAPS.  
 
   ...under denna min wandering några af Afrikas swarta FÄNTAR månne de firade som jag minnets hugkomst från Congo Skogar.
 
The second is a reference Roos makes to a Swedish State institution. He writes:
 
    Bergs Collegiet Nordensköld
 
I know of the Bergs Kollegium established by Gustaf II Adolf, but what is the significance of Nordensköld. I have noted a Otto Gustaf, who was a mining engineer. Is he one and the same?
 
Charles

[Anna-Carin Betzén]

I'm sorry that I can't make out the word in your first question, but I tried to look up the second one.
 
Bergs Collegiet is the definite form of Bergskollegium, but there was only one Bergskollegium so Nordensköld isn't part of the institution's name. Perhaps you'd like to share the whole sentence so we can make out the context? I found some Nordenskölds who may have been connected with the Bergskollegium, as they were into mineral science:  
 
Nordisk Familjebok mentions the alchemist (!) August Nordenskiöld (1754-1792). It says he joined Bergskollegium as an ascultator (perhaps meaning observer/apprentice in this context?) during his studies of mineralogy and chemistry. He had a nephew Nils Gustaf Nordenskiöld (1792-1866) who was a mineralogist, and whose son Nils Adolf Erik Nordenskiöld (1832-1901) also was a mineralogist. If we knew more about the context, we might figure out who and what

[Per Thorsell]

Charles.
 
FANT is a Norwegian/West Swedish dialect word. Direct translations are difficult, since they may suggest connotations, not intended by the original writer. The closest I can get, is HOBO. It does not necessarily mean, they strayed arond the country, but they were lower class people with no fixed occupation, and as such a bit suspiciuos. On top of that, the color of their skin.
 
Per Thorsell.

[Ing-Marie Haglund]

Charles,  
Per is right,Fant is a norwegian/värmländskt word that means landstrykare (luffare) or fattiglapp in swedish i.e tramp(hobo) or someone who is down-and-out and live outside the society.  
 
 
Ing-Marie

[Charles LaVine]

Anna-Carin,
 
Roos, as he has done before in this diary, is looking back on some of his amourous adventures of his youth. If one can believe him in these regards, he has been quite a Lothario.
 
Here he is recalling that by his Emilie, a young lady of noble birth, he has been seduced by her and he has lost his virginity to her. A number of years later, he again meets her in Stockholm and that is where the Bergskollegium enters in. The passage is quite extensive, but the following should bring you into the picture:
 
“O mådde jag kan glömma det, att det, att det war hom som förde mig in på willans sjö och lärde mig hvad kärlek war. Jag war då ännu oskyldig och kusk, men jag kan ändock icke ångra dessa willornes dar, de woro kort men dyra.
 
Många år efteråt jag träffade min Emilie i Stockholm under Crusenstolpeska uppröret, hon hade då warit länge gift med presidenten in Bergs Collegiet Nordensköld ----“
 
Per and Inga-Marie,
 
Thanks but I found in SAOB that FÄNTA could mean a young girl and immediately following its use, Roos is recollecting on another love of his life and his apparent liaison with his “Zambla from Mozambiqe”.
 
Yes, Roos is interesting.
 
Charles

[Elisabeth Thorsell]

Charles, this phrase Jag war då ännu oskyldig och kusk should probably be translated as  I was then still innocent and chaste. The word kusk means coach-driver, but kysk is chaste.

[Anna-Carin Betzén]

Ah, I see. A translation: Many years later I met my Emilie in Stockholm, during the Crustenstolpian uprising. By then she had long been married to the president of Bergskollegium, i.e. Nordensköld.
 
I think this would be the Crustenstolpian uprising he refers to: a Magnus Jacob Crusenstolpe was charged with lese-majesty and was found guilty. There were demonstrations announcing their support for him, which led to street riots and bloodshed. This was in 1838.
 
I can't find any information on the web on which people have been in the Bergskollegium. The mineralogist Nils Gustaf Nordenskiöld (1792-1866) I mentioned above seems like the most plausible candidate of the Nordenskiölds I've found, but he was abroad about 1823-1855.

[Charles LaVine]

To All:
 
I again need some help. The following is the phrase with the words in question in CAPS:
 
... såsom han war MÖGTA or MÄGTA FÄT RÄDD...
 
Högaktningsfullt,
 
Charles

[Kerstin Farm]

Mäkta is best translated as very, rädd is afraid. FÄT I don't know.
 
Kerstin farm

[Marianne Solli]

I am not sure if you can use the Norwegian word "fælt" which is pronounced like "fä(r)t". In Norwegian it means scaring or very unpleasant.

Marianne.

[Ann Little]

I would translate 'mäkta' as mighty. According to SAOB one meaning of the word 'fät' is 'ivrig'= eager or anxious. However, to say that someone was mighty anxious(ly) afraid or scared does not sound at all correct. In what context does this sentence appear Charles?
 
Ann Little

[Anna-Carin Betzén]

Perhaps fät might be the word fet - the use of e vs ä was very inconsistent during the 19th century. Its most common meaning is fat, but SAOB also says it can mean powerful or emphatic, so in that case it's a further emphasis on how scared he was.
 
In my 1969 slang dictionary, fet is listed as a rather generic emhasising word, especially used in sports slang.

[Ing-Marie Haglund]

Hi Charles
It seems like Roos is describing someone's reaction or behaviour... perhaps it will be easier to find a proper translation if you will give us the previous phrase and the beginning of the sentence?
 
Because my first tought when a read the sentence was that here is someone who is very afraid of cattle. According to SAOL Fä-(et) means cattle, beast, dolt or blackguard/scoundrel. Now it is hard to know if fät is a noun or an adjective or if  cattle fit the context or if it is completly wrong!
 
Mvh Ing-Marie

[Marianne Solli]

In Norwegian we could use the sentence: "Jeg ble mektig fælt redd", which in English will have this meaning: "I was scared stiff or ... scared to death". So, for me that words have a probable meaning.

[Ing-Marie Haglund]

Marianne,  
Fält in Swedish means field. Since Ross is born in Filipstad I assume he share less vocabulary with Norwegians than those of us(värmlänningar) who is born next to the Norwegian border. Of course he could have adopt some Norweigan in U.S, but fält would be a so called false friend - so I agree with Ann that it is important to know more about the context. By the way it will be interesting to know the  correct answer
Ing-Marie

[Charles LaVine]

To all:
 
I have three words/phrases I need your help on. I do not find their English equivalents in any dictionaries.
 
They are:
 
1. HJERTFRYSA
 
2. ENGELSK SALT
 
3. RÖTSTOCK
 
All are medically related.
 
Mvh,
 
Charles